东南亚留学中介乱像谈花钱能买来学位吗?

Discussing the Chaotic Situation of Southeast Asian Study Abroad Agencies: Can Degrees Be Bought with Money?

在最近的一次“围炉谈话”中，我们邀请到了马来西亚教育服务机构的Miss Lam和正在马来西亚读博的Dr.Lee。他们就东南亚博士留学项目的问题，以及是否存在“花钱就能买来的学位”的现象进行了深入的探讨。

In a recent ‘fireside chat,’ we invited Miss Lam from a Malaysian educational service organization and Dr. Lee, who is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Malaysia. They had an in-depth discussion about the issues with Ph.D. study programs in Southeast Asia and the phenomenon of ‘buying degrees with money.’

主持人:欢迎林老师和Lee博士过来我们这次交流。上一次我们与汪老师交流了解到马来西亚留学中介这一块好像有些黑幕，所以他推荐的两位，这次进行交流。听说东南亚的博士留学项目出了很多问题。大概能讲一讲情况吗?

Host: Welcome, Miss Lam and Dr. Lee, to our discussion. Last time we talked with Teacher Wang, we learned that there might be some shady aspects to Malaysian study abroad agencies, so he recommended both of you for this discussion. I’ve heard there have been many problems with Southeast Asian Ph.D. study programs. Could you elaborate on the situation?

Miss Lam:嗯，是这样的，这两年呢疫情这个时期有很多中介啊，在网上通过各种互联网，渠道推送了很多信息给这些想读博士的人，还有老师啊，让他们在东南亚有机会，用很方便的方法，甚至只需要花钱，不需要做什么，几乎就能把博士读下来。

Miss Lam: Yes, that’s right. In the past two years, especially during the pandemic, many agencies have been using the internet to push a lot of information to those interested in pursuing a Ph.D. They’ve been telling them that they can easily get a Ph.D. in Southeast Asia, even just by paying money, without much effort, and can almost guarantee obtaining the degree.

主持人:真的有这种花钱就能买来的博士吗?我也很好奇。如果有的话，我也想弄一个，哈哈。

Host: Is there really such a thing as buying a Ph.D. with money? I’m quite curious too. If that’s possible, I’d like to get one myself, haha.

Dr.Lee:我们接触到的项目都是相对正规的项目，大学也都是正规的，大学一般来讲，在乎自己口碑和名声的大学都不敢太乱来，但是可能差一点的大学，偏一点的国家和像印尼或者菲律宾可能会有吧。当然有很多人都看到了，中国现在激烈的教育竞争，还有强大的学历需求，所以在这里面想赚钱的中介很多。

Dr. Lee: The projects we have come across are all relatively formal, and the universities are legitimate. Generally, universities that care about their reputation won’t dare to be too reckless. However, there might

 be some less reputable universities, especially in countries like Indonesia or the Philippines, where this could happen. Of course, many people see the intense educational competition in China and the strong demand for academic qualifications, so there are many agencies looking to make money from this.

主持人，我知道，在中国会有一些人，他们读博士是想直接花钱，然后也可以愿意配合走流程，但是必须让中介保过的，有这样的保过博士吗?

Host: I know that in China, some people want to directly pay for their Ph.D. and are willing to go through the process, but they require the agency to guarantee their graduation. Is there such a thing as a guaranteed Ph.D.?

Dr.Lee:那大家都读过本科的时候，有没有保过的本科呀?你要是天天都不去上课，最后还要给你发一个毕业证，你让老师和学校的面子往哪里放啊?博士的比较特殊，虽然不用经常上课了，但是他还是要跟导师经常联络，做研究，还是要有相对好的研究成果，发表期刊出来，这个决定权好像不在中介吧?

Dr. Lee: When everyone was doing their bachelor’s degree, was there a guaranteed bachelor’s degree? If you never attend classes, should the university still grant you a degree? Where would that leave the dignity of the teachers and the institution? Ph.D. studies are different; although you don’t need to attend classes often, you still need to maintain regular contact with your supervisor, conduct research, and produce relatively good research outcomes, with publications in journals. The decision-making power doesn’t seem to lie with the agencies, does it?

Miss Lam:没错，如果中介推送的很多学生都是能力很差的学生，那么他们的学术能力不强，实际上导师也很恼火。有道理给这样的学生在答辩申请上签字的。哪怕学校强压给他，那他之后也不愿意去收中国学生，他拒绝学校以后给他的分配的中国国际生，像这样的中介如果硬来的话，会出很大的问题咯。

Miss Lam: Exactly. If the agencies push many students with poor abilities, and these students lack academic skills, it actually irritates the supervisors. There’s no reason for them to sign off on these students’ thesis defenses. Even if the university pressures them, they won’t want to accept Chinese students afterward. They might refuse future allocations of Chinese international students from the

 university. If such agencies push too hard, it could lead to serious problems.

主持人:所以有很多博士念着书就退学了么?

Host: So, are there many Ph.D. students dropping out during their studies?

Miss Lam:当然博士退学这种事情念不完很正常，但是中介是不管你的，所以这里面是个坑。

Miss Lam: Of course, it’s normal for Ph.D. students to drop out if they can’t complete their studies. But the agencies don’t care about that, so it’s a trap.

Dr.Lee:会有很多博士在读书的过程中退学吗? 据你们了解马来西亚现在的情况。

Dr. Lee: Are there many Ph.D. students in Malaysia who drop out during their studies? What’s the situation like, according to your understanding?

主持人:我们前不久听说的那个项目不就是这样吗?中国那个中介处理完了之后，我估计有一大半的学生都退学了。那个中介简直是在胡作非为。能不能简单说一下这个情况呢? 也分享一下。

Host: Isn’t that what we heard about that recent project? After the Chinese agency processed everything, I guess more than half of the students dropped out. That agency was just acting recklessly. Can you briefly explain the situation? Please share with us.

Dr.Lee:我可以简单地解释一下这个情况。大体上，马来西亚的博士教育这一块，是在这两年因为疫情和线上课程的推广而变得热闹起来的。学校提供了方便的在线课程，学生不需要去国外就可以学习，所以招生就让中介们宣传得很简单，只需在家读网课就可以拿到博士学位了。甚至连论文都可以找人代写，只需要花钱买，然后把流程跑完就毕业答辩了，答辩完事儿就拿证了。

Dr. Lee: I can briefly explain the situation. In general, the Ph.D. education sector in Malaysia became popular in the past two years, partly due to the pandemic and the promotion of online courses. Universities offered convenient online courses, allowing students to study without going abroad. So, recruitment was made simple by the agencies, saying you just need to take online classes at home to get a Ph.D. degree. Even the thesis can be ghostwritten; you just need to pay, go through the process, and then you’re ready for your viva. After the viva, you get your degree.

主持人:听上去这样也还不错啊，没人说出来，不是很好嘛? 哈哈。

Host: That sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? No one’s speaking out against it, so it’s all good, right? Haha.

Dr.Lee:哪里那么好藏，疫情又不是那么好预测啦，细节不好预测啊。首先，现在疫情结束了，你不能再一直在家呆着了，你还是需要去学校，完成必要的注册报到和签证手续，你是正经的全日制Offer的国际留学生，不是旁听生。不管是什么中介送过去，多会吹牛，到了大马大学之后，流程管理都是一样的。你需要选课，课程导师也不是中介指定的，这些导师决定的成绩也不是中介能够给的。

Dr. Lee: It’s not that easy to hide. The pandemic is unpredictable, and so are the details. First, the pandemic is over now; you can’t stay at home forever. You still need to go to the university, complete the necessary registration and visa procedures. You’re a full-time international student with an official offer, not an auditor. Regardless of which agency sent you, and how much they brag, once you get to a Malaysian university, the process management is the same. You have to choose courses, and the course tutors aren’t assigned by the agency. The grades decided by these tutors can’t be given by the agency.

主持人:之前那个大学在中国还有一个合作院校，他们弄过一个教学中心，为什么也出了很大的状况呢?

Host: The university we talked about earlier had a partnership with a Chinese institution and set up a teaching center. Why did that turn into a big problem?

Dr.Lee:那个情况其实更离谱了。马来西亚的每家知名的国立大学，都有自己的招生公司啦，这个公司在中国院校进行合作，找了很多中国老师去那里读博士。最离谱的是他们直接通过私人培训公司给学生发Offer。但是学生是看不懂的，因为Offer上面也有大学的Logo，学生就把学费等都交给了中国的这个机构，还以为都是交给了大学，都是正式的学校学生，还去上网课了。因为不需要出国，也没有什么EMGS，eVAL签证这些，可能一两年下来都没人发现自己根本不是有大学学籍的学生。

Dr. Lee: That situation was even more outrageous. Every well-known national university in Malaysia has its own recruitment company. This company collaborates with Chinese institutions and has recruited many Chinese teachers to pursue Ph.D.s there. The craziest part was they were issuing offers directly through private training companies. But the students couldn’t understand because the offer had the university’s logo on it. They paid the fees to this Chinese organization, thinking it was all going to the university, that they were official university students. They even attended online classes. Since they didn’t have to go abroad, there were no EMGS or eVAL visa issues, so it might take a year or two before anyone realizes they’re not actually registered university students.

主持人:你的意思是说他们通过私人公司发的Offer是假的是吧?

Host: So you’re saying the offers issued by the private company were fake?

Dr.Lee:在那个时期其实大家都搞不清楚了，傻傻的，直到后面真正去了学校之后，才发现那个培训公司的Offer是不被学校承认的，而真正学校发出的Offer又被耽误了，以至于很多人被学校认为没有报到，是放弃入学了，所以失去了入学资格。

Dr. Lee: During that period, everyone was confused. It wasn’t until they actually went to the university that they realized the offers from the training company weren’t recognized by the university. The real offers from the university were delayed, leading many to be considered as having abandoned their enrollment, thus losing their admission eligibility.

主持人:那这个事实在是太离谱了。他们胆子也确实太大了。

Host: That’s absolutely outrageous. They were really bold to do such a thing.

Dr.Lee:还有更离谱的，他们这个培训公司发完了Offer，还有给发Offer拒绝信的，找了一些奇葩的理由。弄得学生，稀里糊涂就被退学了。你想这些人的申请费和资料费什么课程费，如果大家不说，相当于也就是黑掉了嘛。所以整个这个过程从大学的视线里面，都是看不到的，完全在大学的体外循环。

Dr. Lee: And there’s more. After issuing the offers, this training company also sent out rejection letters with bizarre reasons, causing students to be unwittingly expelled. Think about the application fees, document fees, course fees – if no one speaks up, it’s like that money just disappears. So, from the university’s perspective, this entire process was invisible, completely outside of their system.

主持人:我感觉这个就像有点在骗钱了。他们还能干出更离谱的事情嘛?我听说，他们好像不是都跑去学校上课了，怎么又闹起来了?

Host: This sounds like a scam. Could they have done anything more outrageous? I heard they didn’t all go to the university for classes, so what’s the issue?

Dr.Lee:疫情结束了嘛，学生总还要到学校上课的嘛，所以他们给一部分的学生从大学要来了正式的offer，如果不安排学生入学的话，学生后面的钱就不会再交啦，发表论文的工作坊都没有办法举办。但是大部分的学生因为被他们都拖了一年多，拿不到学校的offer，那么培训公司就发了商务签给他们，过去了100多号人吧，去的是一个东马城市，听说当时那个机场一下子就懵掉了。莫名其妙的一堆中国人拿着商务签到那个城市说是要去读书的学生，好像当场就给退回了一堆学生，让回国了，那学生们肯定就不开心了。

Dr. Lee: Well, the pandemic ended, and students still had to attend classes at the university. So, they got official offers from the university for some students. If they didn’t arrange for these students to enroll, the students wouldn’t continue paying, and they couldn’t hold thesis-writing workshops. But most students, delayed for over a year by the company, couldn’t get the university’s offer, so the company issued business visas for them. Over a hundred went to a city in East Malaysia. I heard that the airport was completely confused when suddenly a group of Chinese people arrived on business visas claiming to be students. Apparently, a bunch of students were sent back on the spot and told to return to their country, which obviously upset them.

Miss Lam:我听说过有第一次去马来西亚的学生，以为是受骗集体割肾去的，那边确实条件没有西马好啦。

Miss Lam: I’ve heard about first-time students going to Malaysia, thinking they were being scammed into organ harvesting, as conditions there aren’t as good as in West Malaysia.

主持人:这个事越来越离谱了，他们为什么要发商务签，把这些学生弄过去呢? 正常注册拿到Offer的去不就行了吗?

Host: This story is getting more and more outrageous. Why did they issue business visas to take these students there? Couldn’t they just go with the normal registration and official offers?

Dr.Lee:一方面他们为了赚钱，这些年收了很多学生嘛。他们原本是想把学生拿去学校晃悠一下。找老师上个课什么的，才能证明你这个项目好歹是个真的嘛，大家交的钱不是假的。毕竟有的人都已经在国内读了两年网课了，以为是两年的博士了。结果今年去了之后才发现自己是个新生。

Dr. Lee: On the one hand, they wanted to make money, having recruited so many students over the years. They initially planned to take the students to the university to attend a few classes to prove that the program was legitimate and that the money paid wasn’t for nothing. After all, some had already been taking online classes for two years in China, thinking they were in a two-year Ph.D. program. But when they went this year, they discovered they were actually new students.

主持人:关于大量学生拿商务签，去学校这个问题有点难理解。

Host: I’m having a hard time understanding this issue with a large number of students obtaining business visas to attend school.

Dr.Lee:简单的来说就是中介，也就是那个中国教学中心，一直忽悠学生，有些学生都已经上了2-3年的网课了还没有任何快要毕业的迹象，中间也有很多学生开始对这个项目开始不信任了，因为有太多破绽被识破。比如上课了几年连EMGS都还没有，系统里也查不到。刚好今年中国开放边境，学生们就吵着说要出国来看个究竟，这个中国教学中心，就举办这个密集型课程想要让学生们来大马安抚学生的情绪，顺便也彰显以下他们在学校得到势力，以为这样做能让学生们对中国中心重拾信任，但是到最后却弄巧成拙。那时候许多学生们的eVAL 还没下来，但是学生们都急了想来学校找真相，学校的集中课程时间又基本都定下来了，很多人还要刷国外时间，于是他们想到让学生使用商务签来大马上课，毕竟商务邀请函也是大学的培训公司发的，就让学生觉得比较可靠，如果用旅游签的话就很可疑了。

Dr. Lee: Simply put, the agency, which is the Chinese teaching center, has been deceiving students. Some students have been taking online classes for 2-3 years without any signs of nearing graduation. Many began to distrust the program because of its many inconsistencies, like not having EMGS even after years of classes and not being found in the system. With China opening its borders this year, students insisted on going abroad to see the truth for themselves. The Chinese center organized an intensive course in Malaysia to appease the students and demonstrate their influence at the school, hoping to regain the students’ trust. But this backfired. Many students’ eVALs hadn’t been approved yet, but they were eager to find the truth at the university. With the course schedule nearly set and many students needing to adjust to the international timing, they decided to use business visas for the students to attend classes in Malaysia. After all, the business invitations were issued by the university’s training company, making it seem more reliable than a tourist visa.

主持人:听上去怎么这么离谱啊，他那个教育中心还是在中国大学合办的? 总之中国的这些国际交流学院，确实会搞出很多奇葩的事情。

Host: This sounds absolutely ridiculous. Was that educational center jointly operated with a Chinese university? It seems these international exchange institutes in China really do some bizarre things.

Miss Lam:总之听说闹得很。很多人在弄退钱的事情。又没有办法容易毕业，跟一开始承诺的很容易毕业的说法都有区别，因为导师们都不很轻易给成绩。那些伊斯兰信仰的马来老师，你要说他们很坚持原则也是很坚持了，如果指望华人的老师或者管理者们去协调那帮马来人，其实是有点困难的。

Miss Lam: It’s been quite a mess. Many people are trying to get refunds. It’s not easy to graduate, contrary to the initial promise of an easy graduation, because the tutors don’t readily give grades. The Malay tutors, who are Muslim, are very principled. It’s difficult for Chinese teachers or administrators to coordinate with them.

主持人:但是我听说过他们的一个推荐项目，说大学副校长来中国讲过，学生英文不太好也能够毕业啊，也会鼓励大家去那边读硕士什么的，还拿出了一个0.5+1的项目，听说很多人也在报名。

Host: But I heard about one of their recommended programs. They said that a university vice-chancellor came to China and mentioned that students with poor English could still graduate. They encouraged students to go there for master’s degrees and introduced a 0.5+1 program, which many people are signing up for.

Dr.Lee:学校导师有余额的情况下，是可能有华人导师的这样华语沟通容易的多。在公立大学里面，像他讲英文不好的情况下也能好毕业的，前提是你的学术能力要够，能够发表期刊，大马名校比较看重国际期刊的发刊能力的，那么。如果是博士的话，相对这个要求就更高了，没有学术能力的话，就更没有办法毕业了。

Dr. Lee: If there are Chinese-speaking tutors available, communication can be easier. In public universities, even if your English isn’t good, you can still graduate if your academic ability is sufficient, especially if you can publish in international journals. Malaysian universities value international publication capabilities. For Ph.D. students, the requirements are even higher. Without academic ability, it’s impossible to graduate.

Miss Lam:很多去的中国学生都受到了一种误导，东南亚的中介为了抓生源做项目赚钱，都会努力承诺保毕业之类。所以当时很多有钱但是没有时间，但又需要学历的人就上了这条船了。这些人一般情况下，英语和学术能力都不行，但是确实有钱。

Miss Lam: Many Chinese students who went there were misled. Southeast Asian agencies, eager to recruit students for profit, often promise guaranteed graduation. Many wealthy people who lack time but need a degree boarded this ship. Generally, these people have neither sufficient English skills nor academic capabilities, but they do have money.

主持人:所以，中国人傻钱多对吧?肯定欢迎啊。

Host: So, it’s like the Chinese are foolish with their money, right? They must be welcomed.

Miss Lam:你总是不能把钱跟学术划等号吧? 如果真的是疫情全程都在网课上完成的话，也就算了，你现在都已经线下了，总是要跟导师学校面对面的。

Miss Lam: You can’t equate money with academic achievement, can you? If it was all online classes during the pandemic, that’s one thing, but now that it’s offline, you need to face the tutors and the university in person.

主持人:那这个事情后来变成什么样了呢?

Host: What happened with this issue eventually?

Dr.Lee:搞得学校很头疼吧，尤其这些中国学生的问题。然后学校的排名也下降了，也归咎于是中国学生的学术不行，还搞出很多问题。终归是大马的名校嘛。所以以马来亚大学为代表的这些大学对中国学生开始变得越来越苛刻了，然后有一些项目也变得越来越严格，从这些项目里退学的博士也越来越多。大马的大学应该也很矛盾，一方面想享受中国教育的红利，另一方面又经历的这些中介们带来的不靠谱，学生被骗也很痛苦，浪费了金钱和时间。所以有不少学生在商量一起打官司吧，听说有50多个人。

Dr. Lee: It caused a lot of headaches for the universities, especially with these Chinese students. The universities’ rankings also dropped, and it was blamed on the poor academic performance of Chinese students, among other issues. After all, these are prestigious universities in Malaysia. So, universities like the University of Malaya have become increasingly stringent with Chinese students, and some programs have become more rigorous. The number of Ph.D. students dropping out of these programs has increased. Malaysian universities are in a dilemma: on one hand, they want to enjoy the benefits of Chinese education, but on the other hand, they suffer from the unreliability brought by these agencies. Students are pained by being cheated and wasting both money and time. So, quite a few students are considering filing a lawsuit together; I heard about more than 50 people.

主持人:那像这样的官司能打赢吗?

Host: Can such lawsuits be won?

Dr.Lee:这很难说，这些博士都是一般有头有脸的人。传出去好像也不太好听，应该没有什么特别有能量的人在牵头。另外，这又涉及到打官司上的很多细节处理律师问题在中国打官司也不是那么好打的，打下来都旷日持久。所以尽量不要牵扯到这样的问题里面是最好的。

Dr. Lee: It’s hard to say. These Ph.D. students are generally reputable individuals. Spreading this news might not sound good, and there doesn’t seem to be anyone particularly influential leading the charge. Moreover, dealing with legal details and the complexity of lawsuits in China is not easy, and they can drag on for a long time. So, it’s best to avoid getting involved in such issues.

Miss Lam:我很好奇他们推荐的0.5+1的硕士项目又是怎么一回事?

Miss Lam: I’m curious about this 0.5+1 master’s program they recommended. What’s that about?

Dr.Lee:大概也就是在中国那个培训中心上半年，然后大学入读之后最短一年之内可以毕业，其实都是在大学允许的框架范围内操作了，他们的硕士，最短期的就是一年允许毕业，博士最短期的连续两年毕业。如果一开始放开给中国机会，那段时间大家都还守规矩的话，也就还好，现在规矩搞乱了，大家乱来，后面是什么样也很难说。

Dr. Lee: It’s roughly half a year at that Chinese training center and then a minimum of one year at the university for graduation. It’s all within the allowed framework of the university. The shortest duration for their master’s degree is one year, and for a Ph.D., it’s a continuous two years. If everyone had followed the rules initially when these opportunities were opened to Chinese students, it would have been fine. But now the rules are messed up, everyone’s acting out, and it’s hard to say what will happen next.

Miss Lam:我是建议，如果想申请这些项目的话，还是要慎重。要抱有什么太理想化的期待，还是要坦诚的一点，面对学术问题，毕竟学习这种事情，你不仅是要面对一张学位证明还是要能够面对自己吧，自己都不认可自己是一个博士硕士，光拿一个学位证书去外面骗别人有什么用呢?多虚伪啊。

Miss Lam: I would advise that if you’re thinking of applying for these programs, be cautious. Don’t harbor overly idealistic expectations. Be honest about academic issues. After all, when it comes to studying, you’re not just facing a degree certificate but also yourself. If you don’t recognize yourself as a Ph.D. or master’s holder, what’s the use of having a degree to deceive others? It’s just hypocrisy.

主持人:但是唯学历论还是在中国有市场的。

Host: But the obsession with academic degrees still has a market in China.

Dr.Lee:那也只能说是把学历当敲门砖用，但是真正工作起来每一个人的工作能力是什么样?他的思想深度怎么样还是可以分辨出来的，硕士和博士研究的最终目的并不是单纯的学术成果，还包括个人的造诣和修养啊。

Dr. Lee: That may be true, but a degree is just a stepping stone. What about the actual work capability of each person? How deep is their thinking? These aspects can still be discerned. The ultimate goal of a master’s or Ph.D. study is not just academic achievement but also includes personal development and cultivation.

主持人:确实也听说有菲律宾，还有印尼的一些博士比较好读。

Host: I’ve also heard that Ph.D. programs in the Philippines and Indonesia are relatively easier.

Dr.Lee:就是大家都说的水博嘛，院校的排名比较差的话，博士可能会容易毕业一点，但是大家都懂的，时间久了以后，你花钱买了一个博士，那个博士也不会受到大家的尊重吧，很多人的博士以后还是要在体制内留名的，挂在那儿天天被人指指点点，是不是也很难受。

Dr. Lee: Those are what people call ‘degree mills.’ If the university’s ranking is low, it might be easier to graduate, but everyone understands that in the long run, a degree you’ve bought won’t be respected. Many people with Ph.D.s still want to be recognized within the system. Hanging that degree on the wall and being constantly scrutinized can be very uncomfortable.

Miss Lam:总之大马名校的博士总没有那么好读，他们也还是要保证自己的名声不要坏掉。

Miss Lam: In any case, a Ph.D. from a prestigious Malaysian university isn’t that easy to obtain. They still need to maintain their reputation.

主持人:为什么现在大家都那么拼命想读博呢，很多人都早就过了读博的年龄了，也在努力啊。

Host: Why are so many people desperate to get a Ph.D. these days, even those who are well past the typical age for such studies?

Dr.Lee:人才落户啊，地方城市政策都会给扶持了，还有评优评干，职业晋升之类的，有一些政策上面也不会太区分博士是不是名校出来的，只要能够留服认证的就可以了。

Dr. Lee: It’s about settling in cities. Local city policies support talent, not to mention things like professional promotions and evaluations. Some policies don’t differentiate much whether the Ph.D. is from a prestigious university or not, as long as it’s recognized and accredited.

主持人:这么说来还真，博士学历像一个工具一样了。

Host: So, a Ph.D. degree is almost like a tool now.

Miss Lam:但是你要知道，留学服务这件事情不是特别好做的，做的一个博士三年毕业是最少的，一般都要5年时间，你想你要做完它整个一个周期的完整链条下来，这个中介是没有这个耐性和韧性的，是不行的。你能相信一个成立只有两三年的公司去承诺你一个5年的服务吗?

Miss Lam: But you have to realize that providing study abroad services isn’t easy. Completing a Ph.D. in three years is the minimum; it usually takes around five years. Think about it: if you have to manage the entire cycle, the agency needs patience and resilience. Can you trust a company that’s only been established for two or three years to promise you a service that lasts five years?

主持人:所以基本上大家都是钱给到什么阶段服务才能到什么阶段提前把钱给过了，后面的事情就没办法去落实了，这么理解是对的吧。

Host: So basically, the service only progresses as far as the money paid, and once you’ve paid in advance, the later stages can’t be implemented. Is that a correct understanding?

Dr.Lee:我们这么讲是不是会得罪很多人，哈哈。

Dr. Lee: Are we going to offend a lot of people by saying this, haha.

Miss Lam:现实就是这样的呀，基本上很多这些中介说了很漂亮，到最后办了也就是提交资料，帮拿到Offer这么一点事情，一旦开始涉及到学术和真正的课程问题，这些中介都不敢参与了。

Miss Lam: That’s the reality. Many of these agencies talk a good game, but in the end, all they do is submit documents and help get an offer. Once it starts involving actual academic work and courses, these agencies don’t dare to get involved.

主持人:我们听说到后面还会有导师刁难人的情况，要求发期刊，要发很高的期刊才行，是这样的嘛?

Host: We’ve heard that there can be difficulties with supervisors later on, demanding publications in high-impact journals. Is that true?

Dr.Lee:因为有一些名校的主校区可能也会招生，分校区也会招生，那么很多中介会打一些擦边球把学生申请到分校区，那么就会难度低一点，但是在主校区像吉隆坡这些地方的导师可能就要考虑自己的学术地位，要求学生发刊规格要很高才行，所以这都是制造难度了，如果一开始入学的时候搞不清楚导师的情况，傻傻的就很容易入坑啊，中介是搞不定这帮导师的。

Dr. Lee: Some prestigious universities might recruit for their main campuses and branch campuses. Many agencies take advantage of this and apply to branch campuses, where it’s easier. But at main campuses, like in Kuala Lumpur, tutors may be more concerned about their academic standing and demand high standards for publication. So, it’s all about creating difficulties. If you don’t understand the tutor’s expectations when enrolling, it’s easy to fall into a trap. Agencies can’t handle these tutors.

主持人:我听说因为马来西亚中文普及率很高，所以可以组织中文答辩的这种博士项目也有的吗，这也是我听他们中介有些人提到的。

Host: I heard that because of the high Chinese literacy rate in Malaysia, there are Ph.D. programs that allow defenses in Chinese. Is that true?

Miss Lam:有可能他们是把偶尔的一次当成了全部吧。像这种机会一般都可遇不可求，而且能够组织起这么多华人教授来参与到一个论文评审中来，也不是单纯的一件事情吧，他背后肯定还是有其他原因在的，可能会有一些政府行为或者主导的原因在，普通中介怎么会有这种背景能力呢。

Miss Lam: Maybe they’re mistaking a rare occurrence for the norm. Such opportunities are rare, and organizing a panel of Chinese-speaking professors for a thesis defense isn’t simple. There might be other factors behind it, like government involvement or leadership reasons. Ordinary agencies wouldn’t have the capacity for this.

主持人:当然有的中介会把自己吹得很厉害，像我前面说的那个案例，他们在中国找了一个院校建立了一个教育中心，结果不还是出了那么多问题吗。

Host: Of course, some agencies boast about their capabilities. Like the case I mentioned earlier, they established an education center with a Chinese institution, and it still had many problems.

Miss Lam:的确世界变得很快，两三年前约定的事情，可能真正到了毕业的时候就变样子了，领导卸任换任，或者一些变化都会导致项目出现各种不可预测的问题。

Miss Lam: Indeed, the world changes fast. Agreements made two or three years ago may look very different by the time of graduation. Changes in leadership or other variables can lead to all sorts of unforeseen issues in projects.

主持人:我前段时间在小红书上翻到一篇文章，大概是说东南亚和韩国的博士评职称不认了，也就是很多找教职工作的博士生，发现韩国和东南亚的博士在各个院校的人事处评价的时候要求慎重考虑，有的干脆直接不要你们了解过这种情况吗？

Host: I recently saw an article on Xiaohongshu saying that Southeast Asian and Korean Ph.D. degrees are no longer recognized for academic positions. Many Ph.D. graduates looking for academic jobs found that their degrees from these regions are either being scrutinized or outright rejected by HR departments at various institutions. Are you aware of this situation?

Miss Lam:所以在这种情况下要读博士就要考虑在名校读了，相对来讲，名校毕竟还是有国际口碑的，比较差的学校就会比较麻烦。像马来西亚Top5这种公立大学都是OS200以内的，回国的话基本上还是挺有实力的。

Miss Lam: In this case, it’s more prudent to pursue a Ph.D. at a prestigious university. Prestigious universities have an international reputation, unlike the lesser-known ones. For example, the top 5 public universities in Malaysia are all within the top 200 globally, and they are quite strong when their graduates return to China.

Dr.Lee:现在我们了解到的情况，一般都是没有什么红头文件或者官方的文件去说，东南亚的博士不让录用，而一般说都是口头上的”慎重”了。

Dr. Lee: From what we understand now, there are no official documents or ‘red-headed’ documents stating that Ph.D.s from Southeast Asia can’t be employed. It’s more of a verbal caution.

主持人:另外一个好像说，很多人的留学服务认证出了问题，有的人认证不下来，或者认证的时候会在认证证书上写的是寒暑假集中授课培训班之类的信息。也还会有一些讲的叫延伸课程，还见过弹性学制的这些认证，总之在这些认证上加了不必要的信息，就会让人觉得烦躁啦，含金量下降之类的。

Host: Another issue is that many people are having problems with study service certification. Some can’t get certified, or their certificates indicate that they attended summer or winter training classes. There are also terms like “extended courses” or “flexible academic systems.” Adding unnecessary information to these certifications can be frustrating and reduce their value.

Miss Lam:是啊，就是因为这样才要去选那些跟正常学制的博士，没有什么实际分别的项目读才好。那些搞的，这些什么项目班之类的，如果搞得太随意了，真的会给留学认证回来找麻烦。而且你真的都不怎么在国外待着，你怎么让留服给你认证啊?

Miss Lam: That’s why it’s better to choose programs that are equivalent to the regular academic Ph.D. programs. If these special programs are too casual, they can indeed cause problems with study abroad certification. And if you don’t spend much time abroad, how can you expect the certification service to recognize your studies?

主持人:我大概之前听过一个说法，就是留服认证，不支持网课认证，是因为中国加入WTO的时候并没有开放网络教育这一个服务项目，所以不对国外大学的网课教育进行认证。

Host: I heard that study abroad certification doesn’t support online courses because when China joined the WTO, it didn’t open up online education as a service sector, so foreign university online courses aren’t recognized.

Miss Lam:哦，其实这个问题要看怎么解释和理解他，如果项目的主办方就是推动网络课程，相当于把网络教育当成一个具体的服务，像电视大学这一种，他们向中国推广这种基于网络的服务模式，可能确实不在中国签署的WTO框架服务范围内。但是你如果上的大学是正常的，大学老师上课要求用Zoom网课教学，你拦不住的啊，因为疫情这段时间确实培养了很多老师，在家里给学生们上网课简简单单开个会，就OK的这种习惯了，大家都不愿意跑来跑去的。

Miss Lam: Oh, the interpretation of this issue varies. If a program is primarily promoting online courses, treating online education as a specific service model similar to TV university, then it might indeed fall outside the service scope agreed upon in China’s WTO commitments. However, if you’re attending a regular university where teachers are conducting classes via Zoom or other online platforms due to the pandemic, that’s different. The pandemic has indeed trained many teachers to conduct classes online from home. It’s become a convenient habit, and people prefer not to travel back and forth.

主持人:所以这种方式就被这些中介宣称为是寒暑假集中授课，网课教育的是吧。

Host: So, these agencies claim that concentrated courses during summer and winter breaks, as well as online education, count as part of the study abroad experience?

Dr.Lee:寒暑假集中授课，还是为了出国刷留学要求的时长的，一般出国寒暑假，不是为了去听老师讲课，主要还是把时间刷出来满足留服认证。你寒暑假去了，人家也在放假，老师都不在了，你想把老师请过来给你上课，老师还觉得烦呢。我们在平时上的那些网课，都是在老师上班不休假的时候上的嘛，那个时候基本上学生也都在国内。

Dr. Lee: Concentrated courses during breaks are more about fulfilling the time requirements for study abroad certification. During summer and winter breaks, universities are usually on holiday, and professors are not around to teach. The online courses we talk about are those conducted when teachers are working, not during their holidays, and students are usually in China.

主持人:所以这就自然而然就变成了寒暑假在国外旅行的这种项目班，然后中国的网课授课，然后中介在稍微加一点忽悠，说学生好毕业，事情就变得很容易了。

Host: So it naturally becomes a kind of study tour during the breaks, combined with online courses in China. Then the agencies slightly exaggerate, making it seem easy for students to graduate.

Miss Lam:中介自己都没读过博士，根本不清楚这里面多少困难啦，你懂一点学术就懂了，发期刊不是那么容易的，名校都重视学术排名，你期刊发的太水，导师就是给你找麻烦。

Miss Lam: These agencies themselves have never pursued a Ph.D. They don’t understand the difficulties involved. Academic publishing is not easy; prestigious universities value academic rankings. If your publications are subpar, it just causes trouble with your supervisor.

主持人:所以说真正的博士毕业出来也不是那么容易能够随便花钱买来的。不能去听信中介不靠谱的那些建议了。那么网上说的那些马来西亚的博士都不能到院校就职了，像这些信息都算准确吗? 需要关注吗？

Host: So, a genuine Ph.D. is not something that can be easily bought. We shouldn’t believe these unreliable suggestions from agencies. Are the online claims about Malaysian Ph.D.s not being able to secure academic positions accurate? Should we pay attention to these?

Dr.Lee:我觉得谣言止于智者吧，因为名校博士都不是那么好读出来的，而你太差院校的博士毕业了，好像也去不了特别好的院校就业。

Dr. Lee: I think rumors are stopped by wise people. A Ph.D. from a prestigious university is not easy to obtain, and those from lesser-known universities may not secure positions at top institutions.

Miss Lam;但是我的确也没有看到什么官方的正式说法。还是偏见多一些吧。

Miss Lam: But I haven’t seen any official statements on this. It seems more like prejudice.

Dr.Lee:应该都是这些中介瞎折腾闹的人心惶惶吧，两颗老鼠屎坏掉了一锅汤。

Dr. Lee: It’s probably the chaos caused by these agencies, a few bad apples spoiling the bunch.

Miss Lam:这两年应该没有大马有太多的中国水博出来，好像都是说的多，但是，见到的少啊。他们可能只是听中介，说的太天花乱坠了，而这些名校毕业出来的博士，一共也没有几个出来呀。

Miss Lam: There don’t seem to be many ‘degree mill’ Ph.D.s from Malaysia in recent years. There’s a lot of talk, but not much evidence. These agencies probably just make grandiose claims, and there aren’t many Ph.D.s graduating from prestigious universities.

Dr.Lee:我感觉也是的。因为马来西亚每年的中国去留学生大概1万多人的规模，博士生可能也就只有千八百人，那也是这一两年才有的。把那些原来被中介骗了的，想花钱读博士的人，回头会退学的人排除掉，能够毕业的人，大概也就只有一两百人每年吧，这些人即便是回到中国，也没有多大本事兴风作浪啊，而且马来西亚是这一两年才兴起来的留学国家，那些假博士或者水博士对中国造成的伤害，远没有欧美那些新闻里博士们闹出的问题多吧。这一两百人加一块，还没有国内有的大学，招收的马列主义博士人数量多呢。

Dr. Lee: That’s what I think too. The number of Chinese students studying in Malaysia is around 10,000 per year, with only about a thousand or so pursuing Ph.D.s, a recent development. If you exclude those who were deceived by agencies or who drop out, there are only about a hundred or two hundred who graduate each year. Even if they return to China, they don’t have much influence. Moreover, Malaysia has only recently become a popular study destination. The impact of these ‘fake’ or ‘easy’ Ph.D.s on China is much less compared to the issues caused by Ph.D.s from Europe and America in the news. The number of these graduates from Malaysia is even less than the number of Marxism Ph.D.s recruited by some universities in China.

主持人:您这样一说，这个事情还真的找到了一点名堂，也就真的是这些乱中介把事情搞复杂了。结果把整个市场都搞坏掉了，差一点把正规的博士们都给搞毁掉了。

Host: From what you’ve said, it seems these disreputable agencies have indeed complicated matters, tarnishing the entire market and nearly ruining the reputation of legitimate Ph.D. programs.

Miss Lam:是的，因为这些中介呢，搞得有点乱来，而且马来西亚那一边经济还不如中国发达，我之前也还看到过一个贴，说世纪大学有个博士生导师在开题报告的时候向学生要红包，不知道是不是被举报了，但是结果就是很多博士学生的毕业资格被取消了，我当时只是随便看了一下，还不知道具体后文是怎么样。

Miss Lam: Yes, these agencies have created chaos. And considering Malaysia’s economy is not as developed as China’s, I remember seeing a post about a Ph.D. supervisor at Universiti Sains Malaysia demanding red envelopes from students during their proposal presentations. I’m not sure if it led to a report, but many Ph.D. students ended up having their graduation qualifications revoked. I only glanced over it and am not sure about the details.

Dr.Lee: 所以自己普通申请过去读博士，也是挺有负担和压力的。选导师也得擦亮眼睛，导师也想选高产的学生，这个读博一晃三四年这个毕业都不知道是5年8年。很容易听信中介给的那些话，谁不想早几年毕业呀，谁也都希望找一个有靠山的中介去跟导师和学校周旋。

Dr. Lee: Pursuing a Ph.D. through a standard application process is quite burdensome and stressful. Choosing the right supervisor is crucial, as they also look for productive students. A Ph.D. can take anywhere from three to eight years. It’s easy to be misled by the promises made by agencies – who wouldn’t want to graduate a few years early? Everyone hopes to find a well-connected agency to negotiate with supervisors and universities on their behalf.

主持人:我想问一下，在马来西亚真的读博士会很难吗?

Host: I want to know, is it really difficult to pursue a Ph.D. in Malaysia?

Dr.Lee:这个事情难者不会，会者不难。学术研究上,马来西亚主要靠英文和马来文进行学术检索，不怎么检索中文。国内有很多研究他们看不到，所以我们可以发一些中国已经有的东西，做创新和融合。在人文类学科里面不复杂，但在自然科学方面可能需要兼顾全世界的视角。马来西亚它毕竟没有中国发达，所以他在看待中国学生的时候，也没有那么苛刻。尤其知道学生如果有一些中国科研背景的话，那他们也要有一定的学习心态才对。

Dr. Lee: It’s a case of ‘the difficult made easy for the skilled, and the easy made difficult for the unskilled’. In terms of academic research, Malaysia primarily relies on English and Malay for academic searches, not so much Chinese. There’s a lot of research in China that they don’t see, so we can repurpose existing Chinese research for innovation and integration. It’s not very complicated in humanities, but in natural sciences, you might need to consider a global perspective. Malaysia isn’t as developed as China, so they aren’t as strict with Chinese students, especially those with a Chinese research background.

主持人:我知道有很多去马来西亚留学的老师们都是呃，申请的教育类专业啊，或者是管理类的专业啊，还有计算机类的专业，这些专业都满了。你们会有什么其他好的推荐吗?

Host: I know many teachers who study in Malaysia apply for majors in education, management, or computer science, and these are often full. Do you have any other recommendations?

Dr.Lee:如果他们是中学老师，或者地方的教育领导那就去学他们各自自己的学科呀，这些基础学科呀，这不是很好吗?日后做一个学术官僚，不也是很有面子的?

Dr. Lee: If they are middle school teachers or local educational leaders, they should study their respective disciplines. These foundational subjects are great. Isn’t it prestigious to become an academic bureaucrat in the future?

主持人:那这些专业都好申请么?

Host: Are these majors easy to apply for?

Miss Lam:都还好啊，至少要比欧美的这些院校的基础学科，申请起来或者毕业起来要简单的多吧，只要确实这些申请人他们在自己的领域呢，有一些建树吧。而且现在中国的5G啊，还有教育融合啊，科技融合这些概念，其实可以做一些实践类的研究，只要导师支持你的课题。最关键这些实践类的课题，在中国根本不缺论文啊，尤其围绕5G这些东西只有中国先出来普及了啊，这是属于从中国向国外输出的时期要懂得利用这种势能给自己制造优势，而且这一类的研究都属于比较正经的学术研究。

Miss Lam: They’re fairly accessible, at least easier than applying for foundational subjects in European and American institutions. As long as the applicants have some achievements in their fields. With concepts like China’s 5G, educational integration, and technological convergence, practical research can be conducted as long as the supervisor supports the topic. There’s no shortage of papers on these topics in China, especially around 5G, which China has pioneered. It’s a period of exporting from China to the world, and one should use this momentum to create advantages. This kind of research is generally serious academic study.

Dr.Lee:是啊，人工智能这些也是比较热门的话题，像这些跟教学能够进行融合，而马来西亚在这方面又比较薄弱，也会欢喜中国的学者做这方面研究，老师们做完这些研究，又能博士毕业后带回中国，又能进一步发展自己的研究和成果，又是互惠互利的，总是能够走在时代的前沿。

Dr. Lee: Yes, topics like artificial intelligence are also popular. Such topics, when integrated with teaching and given Malaysia’s relative weakness in this area, are welcomed by Malaysian institutions. Teachers conducting these studies can bring back their doctoral knowledge and further develop their research and results in China. It’s mutually beneficial and keeps them at the forefront of their fields.

主持人:你这想法挺棒的，的确启发了我，我刚才用GPT生成了下面的课题名称，都是基础学科结合了教育实践又融合了新兴的科技这些：

1. 应用AI在个性化数学教育中的实证研究:研究AI技术如何帮助设计和实施个性化的数学教学策略，以提高学生的学习效果。
2. 基于AR技术的化学实验教学模式探索:研究如何利用AR技术改善化学实验教学，提高学生的学习兴趣和实验操作能力。
3. 利用VR技术在物理教学中模拟复杂系统”:研究如何通过VR技术在物理教学中模拟和展示复杂的物理系统，以帮助学生理解抽象的物理概念
4. 5G技术在远程生物科学教育中的应用”研究如何利用5G技术提供高质量的远程生物科学教育，包括实时的视频传输和互动式的在线实验
5. 教育技术在提高STEM教育效果中的角色”:研究新的教育技术，如AI、AR、VR和5G等，如何被有效地应用于STEM(科学、技术、工程和数学)教育中，以提高教学效果和学生参与度。

Host: Your idea is fantastic, and it’s really inspiring. I just used GPT to generate the following topic titles, which combine foundational subjects with educational practice and emerging technologies:

1. “Empirical Research on the Application of AI in Personalized Mathematics Education”: This research explores how AI technology can help design and implement personalized mathematics teaching strategies to enhance student learning outcomes.
2. “Exploration of Chemistry Experiment Teaching Models Based on AR Technology”: This study investigates how to utilize AR technology to improve chemistry experiment teaching, increasing student interest and experimental skills.
3. “Using VR Technology to Simulate Complex Systems in Physics Teaching”: This research examines how VR technology can simulate and demonstrate complex physical systems in physics education, helping students understand abstract physical concepts.
4. “Application of 5G Technology in Remote Biological Science Education”: This study focuses on how to use 5G technology to provide high-quality remote biological science education, including real-time video transmission and interactive online experiments.
5. “The Role of Educational Technology in Enhancing the Effectiveness of STEM Education”: This research investigates how new educational technologies like AI, AR, VR, and 5G can be effectively applied in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) education to improve teaching effectiveness and student engagement.

Miss Lam:这些课题都涉及到将新兴的科学技术应用于教育实践，以解决实际的教学问题和提高教学效果，研究者可以具体兴趣和研究目标来选择和细化这些课题，然后现在AI也很发达了嘛，以前写论文是很辛苦的事，现在也轻松很多啦。

Miss Lam: Your insights are quite enlightening, highlighting how emerging scientific technologies are applied in educational practice to solve actual teaching problems and enhance teaching effectiveness. Researchers can choose and refine these topics based on their specific interests and goals. And now, with the advancement of AI, writing research papers has become much easier.

主持人:说到老师，我就一直很好奇，为什么很多是老师们，都会跑出去读这些东南亚的博士，我朋友讲读博士的其中一半都是高校老师.

Host: Speaking of teachers, I’m always curious why many choose to pursue Ph.D.s in Southeast Asia. A friend of mine said that about half of the Ph.D. students are university lecturers.

Dr.Lee:海归博士在中国的黄金时期大概是2005~2010年，之后断断续续到2020年都属于长尾时期，院校招聘也在不断贬值。到后期就变成在职老师的镀金工具。现在理论上还在读博士的，就只能算是给自己职业上保险，如果奔着去高校就业，没有学术成果的情况下，回国就业还是有一定困难的。客观讲，来东南亚，马来西亚读博士，哪怕是马来亚大学读博士，回国工作也是头疼的事情。

Dr. Lee: The golden era for overseas Ph.D. graduates in China was around 2005-2010. After that, there was a gradual decline until 2020, with the value of such degrees in academic recruitment diminishing. Eventually, it became more about credentialing for in-service teachers. For those currently pursuing a Ph.D., it’s mostly for career security. If they aim for academic positions without significant academic output, finding a job upon returning to China can be challenging. Realistically, getting a Ph.D. from a Southeast Asian university, even from a university like Universiti Malaya, and then working in China can be problematic.

主持人:那不依然很多老师还要读博士，不读好像也不行，没有这个学历好像以后没法混是吧?

Host: So, many teachers feel compelled to pursue Ph.D.s, as not having one seems to limit their career prospects?

Dr.Lee:为了评职称，行政岗转教师岗，学校提高博士率，很多这方面政策支持啊。有些人是主动，有些人是“不得不”啊。毕竟在中国国内读博士要“卷”，而且还得排队。欧美又很贵，东南亚难度不高，费用还算划算，但是这两年闹得太凶就变成水博了嘛。这个学历要是早晚得拿，早拿早踏实，早点上岸嘛。

Dr. Lee: Yes, to achieve higher professional titles, transition from administrative to teaching roles, and meet the increasing demand for Ph.D.-qualified staff in educational institutions, many policies support pursuing a Ph.D. Some do it willingly, others feel they have no choice. Pursuing a Ph.D. in China involves intense competition and waiting lists. Studying in Europe and America is expensive. Southeast Asia offers an easier and more affordable option, though recent controversies have led to a perception of such degrees as less valuable. But if one needs the degree sooner or later, it’s better to get it sooner for peace of mind and career advancement.

主持人:我记得去年有一个地方的学院花了1800多万引进了23个菲律宾亚当森的哲学博士。这个当时是引发了舆论的风潮的。

Host: I recall last year a local college spent over 18 million RMB to hire 23 Ph.D. graduates from Adamson University in the Philippines, which sparked quite a controversy.

Dr.Lee:是啊，江苏的一个职业技术学院也是要聘用6个人，里面有4个是韩国的私立大学博士，所以这方面问题就闹到风口浪尖，弄得很多学校都很紧张。

Dr. Lee: Indeed, and a vocational college in Jiangsu also planned to hire six individuals, including four with Ph.D.s from private universities in Korea. This brought the issue to the forefront, causing many institutions to become apprehensive.

Miss Lam:所以之后中国的院校就都很紧张东南亚和韩国毕业的博士，谁也不想上新闻，然后就，都放缓招聘这些博士的节奏了。其实全世界哪里的博士不都差不多，如果有水的，欧美也很水的。我觉得现在就是东南亚，因为有比较高的性价比，处在这个风口浪尖上，很多地方反而因为去的比较少，人数也比较少，没出过那么多事情让人那么关注了。

Miss Lam: Subsequently, Chinese institutions became cautious about hiring Ph.D. graduates from Southeast Asia and Korea. Nobody wants to be in the news for such reasons, leading to a slowdown in recruiting these Ph.D. holders. However, the quality of Ph.D. programs varies worldwide. If there are substandard programs, Europe and America have them too. Southeast Asia, due to its cost-effectiveness, is currently under scrutiny. In many places, because fewer people go there, and the numbers are lower, it hasn’t attracted as much attention for such issues.

Dr.Lee:我感觉也是的，因为在马来西亚的大学里面，2000年之前也就是一些大概三本二本的背景的去申请他的博士了，现在甚至有一些很高背景的人也去了，像北大南大，中国科技大这些都有了。我觉得后面市场规范了以后包括标准提高了，情况会好很多。

Dr. Lee: I agree. In Malaysian universities, before 2000, it was mostly students from lesser-known Chinese universities applying for Ph.D.s. Now, even graduates from top Chinese universities are applying. I believe the situation will improve with more stringent market regulations and higher standards in the future.

主持人:我也看到过菲律宾的这些机构一些宣传啊，说的倒是很实在，说自己的含金量一般，但是钱花的不多，时间短，博导也不卡学生，所以是完全正规的学历，所以读的人也会蛮多，哪怕学校差一点吧，终归是个博士。

Host: I’ve also seen promotions from Philippine institutions. They’re pretty straightforward, admitting that their degrees have average recognition. However, they’re inexpensive, take less time, and supervisors don’t hinder students, so they’re still fully legitimate degrees. That’s why many people, even if the schools are somewhat lesser-known, still opt for these programs, as it’s still a Ph.D. in the end.

Dr.Lee:菲律宾的博士竞争力不强，但是能拿到留服认证也很不错了，关键有很多中国的艺术类院校的专业博士点很少，都要等排队，而且每年都在增加排队的人关系，跟导师铁的很不一般才行，都很难排得上，所以一般人不敢去等这种博士了。

Dr. Lee: The competitiveness of Philippine Ph.D. programs isn’t strong, but obtaining certification from the Chinese Service Center for Scholarly Exchange (CSCSE) is commendable. There’s a scarcity of professional doctoral programs in many artistic disciplines in China, requiring long waits and strong connections with supervisors, making it difficult for most people to even consider these programs.

主持人:有的省份给的政策是，博士进入大学，最快两年讲师出来，就可以到副教授了，那个硕士进学校两年才有资格从助教申请成为讲师，还得当5年的讲师才能申报副教授，所以想快一点出头，还是要有一个博士的身份加持啊。

Host: Some provinces have policies where Ph.D. holders can become associate professors within two years of joining a university, while master’s degree holders need two years just to qualify for a lecturer position and then spend another five years as a lecturer before they can apply for associate professorship. So, to advance quickly, having a Ph.D. seems crucial.

Dr.Lee:对于学校来讲，他想申报硕士点，根据中国国务院学位委员会发布的学位授权审核申请条件也要求博士学位的教师比例不能低于25%，所以院校有很充分的动力去招收博士来的。

Dr. Lee: For universities, to apply for master’s programs, the Chinese Academic Degrees and Graduate Education Development Center requires a minimum of 25% of faculty members to hold a Ph.D., so there’s a strong incentive for institutions to recruit Ph.D. holders.

Miss Lam:现在对东南亚这边博士的偏见觉得很水，还是有点问题。比较耽误人，关键还是不良中介引起的，这“个”水只能代表申请难度不高，但是要是纯靠“水”去毕业，那还是水”不出来的，宣传包毕业的包认证的中介，或者两年就能毕业的这些说法，真是太坑人了。

Miss Lam: The prejudice against Southeast Asian Ph.D.s as being substandard is problematic, often caused by unscrupulous agencies. Being “easy” only means the application isn’t highly competitive, but graduating solely based on “ease” is unlikely. Agencies that promise guaranteed graduation or certification, or claim you can graduate in two years, are really misleading.

Dr.Lee: 实际上我身边就有人，都读了五六年，甚至还有更久的根本读不下去。前段时间我有朋友在马来西亚理工大学那边读博士，他那边就退了好几个师兄弟。基本上都是博导，还有专业原因闹的吧，被这帮中介坑的一轮又一轮的。

Dr. Lee: In fact, I know people who have spent five to six years, and even longer, struggling to complete their Ph.D.s. A friend of mine at the Malaysia University of Technology had several peers who dropped out. It was mainly due to supervisors and academic reasons, exacerbated by misleading agencies.

主持人:一开始听说马来西亚的博士有大量的退学潮，我还是有点怀疑的，但是听你们这么说，我是终于搞清楚原因了，可能一开始大家学术能力都不够，但都偏听偏信了中介的宣传，去了马来西亚之后发现自己能力都不行，既然毕不了业，就只能退学吧，趁早止损对吧?

Host: At first, I was skeptical about the high dropout rate for Malaysian Ph.D.s, but now I understand the reasons. Maybe initially, everyone’s academic ability wasn’t sufficient, and they believed the agencies’ promotions. After arriving in Malaysia and realizing their capabilities weren’t adequate and they couldn’t graduate, they had no choice but to drop out early to minimize losses.

DrLee: 所以这些中介算是比较离谱的，因为做了太多虚假的承诺，吃亏的已经毕业的这些博士。但是我觉得也还好吧，欧美早些年不也是这种局面吗? 那边的私立院校也很多，各种各样的博士也很多，这类问题，只不过这两年轮到了马来西亚而已。

Dr. Lee: So, these agencies are quite outrageous for making so many false promises, and it’s the graduates who have suffered. But I think it’s not too bad. Europe and America faced similar situations in earlier years, with many private institutions and a variety of Ph.D. programs. These issues have just recently become more apparent in Malaysia.

Miss Lam:所以只要是名校出来的或者是排名靠前的大学出来的博士，也就都还算是有含金量的。

Miss Lam: As long as the Ph.D. is from a prestigious or top-ranked university, it usually holds significant value.

DrLee:嗯，一方面自己得评估清楚自己需不需要，看远一点，现在不读是不是以后早晚得读。另外看看自己有没有闲钱，有没有时间，读了也就是读了，努努力在马来西亚也能读下来。光花钱买证是很定别想了。

Dr. Lee: Yes, one must assess whether they need the degree and look ahead to determine if it’s inevitable in the future. Also, consider if you have the financial means and time. If you decide to pursue it, with some effort, you can complete it in Malaysia. But don’t think about just buying a degree.

主持人:好的，今天收货很多，感谢二位的交流，我们今天先到这里。

Host: Thank you both for this enlightening discussion. We’ll end our session here for today.